Feelings as indicators of Unmet needs...

Do you wish you could act against torture ?
Do you wish NVC helped you do that ?

You have it...and then you are alive...you lose it...and you take a hit...

You have what it takes and you are alive...you lose it and you take a hit...its like riding a motorbike very fast on the highway...you know that a mistake can cost you your life...but you are having fun...

While discussing the theory of needs it became clear...that while air, water and food which are the fundamental needs of life have till recently been forgotten because of their seeming abundance and indestructibility...and attention mainly in the USA ...focused on an ever growing list of needs some of which are listed here...https://www.nycnvc.org/needs/ ....and this led to an ongoing attempt to "meet needs"...that led to the acceleration of innovation trying to catch up with the increase in needs...and the attempt to meet needs leading to increasing production of commodities, goods and services....and to rapid resource depletion, pollution and global climate change, the growth model of development....and global monetary collapse....and still needs continue to grow and our technology driven by our feelings of unmet needs races to continue supplying us with the commodities goods and services we need to meet these growing needs...

mentor.srilanka wrote:You have what it takes and you are alive...you lose it and you take a hit...its like riding a motorbike very fast on the highway...you know that a mistake can cost you your life...but you are having fun...

It seems to me that you experience a feeling of exhilaration in being effective in keeping yourself alive and still in the game.

mentor.srilanka wrote:While discussing the theory of needs it became clear...that while air, water and food which are the fundamental needs of life have till recently been forgotten because of their seeming abundance and indestructibility...and attention mainly in the USA ...focused on an ever growing list of needs some of which are listed here...https://www.nycnvc.org/needs/ ....and this led to an ongoing attempt to "meet needs"...that led to the acceleration of innovation trying to catch up with the increase in needs...and the attempt to meet needs leading to increasing production of commodities, goods and services....and to rapid resource depletion, pollution and global climate change, the growth model of development....and global monetary collapse....and still needs continue to grow and our technology driven by our feelings of unmet needs races to continue supplying us with the commodities goods and services we need to meet these growing needs...

Yes.  When the basic needs for air, food and water, must be attended to, there is little room for the less urgent needs.  

And, yes.  In our part of the world, where those needs are more readily met, we can begin to look to meet other needs.  And an economic system has developed, that entices us to attempt to meet those needs in ways that are destructive to the planet, and frustrating to the very needs we are attempting to meet.

This is a huge predicament that is part of what has motivated me to be in this course.

I feel excited and hopeful about what might emerge from this dialogue with someone who may have a very different perspective than my own.

Carol....this is the aspect of the behavior of the species that is most interesting..."And, yes.  In our part of the world, where those needs are more readily met, we can begin to look to meet other needs.  And an economic system has developed, that entices us to attempt to meet those needs in ways that are destructive to the planet, and frustrating to the very needs we are attempting to meet...."

I suspect that a lot of what you call "other needs" actually rise from our attempts to satisfy these basic needs. Our need for food generates massive irrigation systems with Dams and what-nots. Then we arrange for pied water to our habitat in order to meet our need for water. To do that we need pipes which means mining and metallurgy and later on plastics. while doing all this we lose site of the fact that all this smelting of metals is polluting the air we need....and all our manufacturing is messing up the water....

Then we go to villagers who are managing their little vegetable patches with their wells and streams and tell them that they are rustic idiots and savages (Which of course they are)...and we say the same to ALL native aboriginal hunter gatherer and nomadic populations. Of course they snigger at us behind our backs and say that WE are idiots...and they show no interest in our way of life. Then we get tough and tell them you MUST get civilized you morons...!!!!!...and they say what the hell for...? We are fishing and hunting and growing plants and screwing ourselves silly with no fear of overpopulation because the great spirit makes sure that most of the kids die and no one gets to live beyond thirty five without being eaten by lions or whatever or they die of small pox or some other deadly bug...

You idiots we scream...if you do not fall in line...!!!! the genocidal war then begins in the name of civilizing the savages....and it takes centuries/millennia for a few of us to just begin to question this whole civilization based on the satisfaction of needs ...which keep increasing endlessly...and we remember that these needs behave pretty much just like what a guy long ago called "Desires" that were the children of "Craving"...and closely related to a bunch of "Longings", "Impulses" and "Urges" and a persistent itch called "Comfort"...that drives us to "clean up our environment" "Kill the vermin" and "cover the earth/DIRT!!! with concrete"....we will soon be done and then it will not be snowball earth but concrete and asphalt earth...

Its a great story - this story of meeting needs - and it is a great civilization - this civilization based on our race to satisfy needs that we keep increasing. I love driving my Rolls and this 27 inch iMac is fun too...and I am blessed by the god of this civilization so that though its 8.25 am I have no need to rush to work ...BUT....I doubt that I will die before this beautiful world falls apart or goes up in flames...so I am beginning to toy with the idea of dreaming up "Myworld" just like "MySriLanka" which helps keep the guns trained on me...https://www.change.org/p/mysrilanka?fbclid=IwAR0N8ASMC9rnO39VK8mmAMPb-DzbmARwwkDy7WDk6WI07UceVnKJffGvdos

I am sure you are having just as much fun on the other side of the world assuming that you are in the USA which is the universal capital of need generation...the land of the needy....which may be a lot better than this island which seems to be the global capital of the greedy judging by the amount of corruption around...and I do believe that we are going to make it into an entrepot offshore banking center...like all islands it will become a place where pirates of all sorts bury their ill gotten treasures....

mentor.srilanka wrote:Carol....this is the aspect of the behavior of the species that is most interesting..."And, yes.  In our part of the world, where those needs are more readily met, we can begin to look to meet other needs.  And an economic system has developed, that entices us to attempt to meet those needs in ways that are destructive to the planet, and frustrating to the very needs we are attempting to meet...."

I suspect that a lot of what you call "other needs" actually rise from our attempts to satisfy these basic needs. Our need for food generates massive irrigation systems with Dams and what-nots. Then we arrange for pied water to our habitat in order to meet our need for water. To do that we need pipes which means mining and metallurgy and later on plastics. while doing all this we lose site of the fact that all this smelting of metals is polluting the air we need....and all our manufacturing is messing up the water....

Then we go to villagers who are managing their little vegetable patches with their wells and streams and tell them that they are rustic idiots and savages (Which of course they are)...and we say the same to ALL native aboriginal hunter gatherer and nomadic populations. Of course they snigger at us behind our backs and say that WE are idiots...and they show no interest in our way of life. Then we get tough and tell them you MUST get civilized you morons...!!!!!...and they say what the hell for...? We are fishing and hunting and growing plants and screwing ourselves silly with no fear of overpopulation because the great spirit makes sure that most of the kids die and no one gets to live beyond thirty five without being eaten by lions or whatever or they die of small pox or some other deadly bug...

You idiots we scream...if you do not fall in line...!!!! the genocidal war then begins in the name of civilizing the savages....and it takes centuries/millennia for a few of us to just begin to question this whole civilization based on the satisfaction of needs ...which keep increasing endlessly...and we remember that these needs behave pretty much just like what a guy long ago called "Desires" that were the children of "Craving"...and closely related to a bunch of "Longings", "Impulses" and "Urges" and a persistent itch called "Comfort"...that drives us to "clean up our environment" "Kill the vermin" and "cover the earth/DIRT!!! with concrete"....we will soon be done and then it will not be snowball earth but concrete and asphalt earth...

Its a great story - this story of meeting needs - and it is a great civilization - this civilization based on our race to satisfy needs that we keep increasing. I love driving my Rolls and this 27 inch iMac is fun too...and I am blessed by the god of this civilization so that though its 8.25 am I have no need to rush to work ...BUT....I doubt that I will die before this beautiful world falls apart or goes up in flames...so I am beginning to toy with the idea of dreaming up "Myworld" just like "MySriLanka" which helps keep the guns trained on me...https://www.change.org/p/mysrilanka?fbclid=IwAR0N8ASMC9rnO39VK8mmAMPb-DzbmARwwkDy7WDk6WI07UceVnKJffGvdos

I am sure you are having just as much fun on the other side of the world assuming that you are in the USA which is the universal capital of need generation...the land of the needy....which may be a lot better than this island which seems to be the global capital of the greedy judging by the amount of corruption around...and I do believe that we are going to make it into an entrepot offshore banking center...like all islands it will become a place where pirates of all sorts bury their ill gotten treasures....

I hear a cry of pain and also of hopelessness in your vivid story of capitalists and villagers and those who are civilized and those who are aboriginal, screaming at each other in endless misunderstanding.  And then I visit the site you name, MySriLanka, and I see what seems to me to be hope and determination, to find change and seek compassion.

I admit to feeling some fear in connecting with this, even on just these invisible air waves.  Fear for my own little, probably delusional, bubble of safety, and of increasing my vulnerability, closeness, to the things you speak of, like torture.  I admit, uncomfortably, to feeling some conflict, --a daring to forge ahead with my desire for connection and understanding, competing powerfully with my desire for safety, ease and simplicity.

I suppose, in having this conflict, I personify some of the difficulty activists experience in motivating others in moving toward change.

And, yes it is true, that like you in your Rolls, I am having some fun here too.  

Carol

As I get older...and death gets closer...and more familiar...as something inevitable....probably even welcome one day...the fear moves away...and I am free to take decisive action towards the realization of what I knows is potentially possible...so no more pain and hopelessness...appropriate and understandable stuff of my adolosence...all that goes away...when I commits to doing what I can do...despite the risks and dangers ...and now the fun gets better everyday...and the money is good too..as you can imagine...

I admit to feeling admiration of what I perceive as courage and integrity in your choice to act for what you value, in the face of danger, and even though it would be possible for some to remain complacent in the rich, material comfort that surrounds you.

I feel privileged to get to have this conversation with you.

Carol

The very first sentence of this article shows that finally America is beginning to understand what we have no difficulty understanding...so I thought I will share this with all...https://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/58770-focus-climate-change-is-already-displacing-millions-of-people-its-our-responsibility-to-help-them

mentor.srilanka wrote:You have it...and then you are alive...you lose it...and you take a hit...

Hi Mentor,

The 'it' you refer to as either having or losing:  is it the competence that I spoke of in the previous post?

I had said, "I imagine there is a met need for simply staying alive—breathing, eating, drinking—each day you have successfully navigated the pitfalls of your world.  I am speculating that underneath this may lie a need for competence, without which the need to stay alive might not be able to be met".

If so, I understand how much you rely on your skill, your sharp reflexes, your acumen, intelligence, street-smarts, to stay alive.

You say, 'take a hit' and I hear it as something one plays strategically, as a game-- and yet it is a life that is at stake.  I guess I would call that perspective having 'nerves of steel'.

Carol

IT refers to whatever you were seeing and admiring...those things are simply there or not there....yes of course one would try to keep in good shape...but ultimately things are not in ones own hands beyond deciding whether to collaborate or not...or at least that is how it seems to me...maybe not everybody. I would not say "Nerves of steel"...although yes...our nerves and the rest of our bodies are pretty amazing...its just how our bodies work and how we are called to live....our ancestors survived for hundreds of thousands of years without technology...just their "nerves of steel"...its just that we have become soft and scared and unable to accept our limitations...global climate change for instance is here....it is too late to prevent civilizational collapse....BUT we can prevent extinction...the last time around they estimate that just around 1000 breeding pairs survive....this time we have the ability to stabilize at around a billion...if we are able to bring ourselves out of our "neediness", stop feeling sorry for ourselves and afraid....accept that life is tough and collaborate to survive...build the resilient support systems...actually they are already there...they simply have to be re configured...

mentor.srilanka wrote:....it is too late to prevent civilizational collapse....BUT we can prevent extinction...the last time around they estimate that just around 1000 breeding pairs survive....this time we have the ability to stabilize at around a billion...if we are able to bring ourselves out of our "neediness", stop feeling sorry for ourselves and afraid....accept that life is tough and collaborate to survive...build the resilient support systems...actually they are already there...they simply have to be re configured...

Hi! Me again. Thinking I am hearing in your words, some hope for mankind and possibly a yearning for mankind to buckle down and seriously get to work on the tasks that desperately need attending to. I understand you to be seeing clearly, some possibilities and directions to go in, and hope humanity can manage to unify and organize to implement them.

Carol

Oh sure Carol...!!!...Lots of hope for humanity. Humans can and often are Horrible...but they have an immense potential because of the illusiory "autonomy" that has been generated within them. No guarantee that they will get anywhere of course...BUT...they may and that is what makes things interesting and exciting. We are getting set to elect a new president here...the growing global horizontal polarity and the fight back by vertical polarity and the nation state with its nationalism and all that comes with it...is very evident here as well...so far no violence...but there is a dictator accused of kidnapping, extortion, rape, torture, murder disappearances and war crimes trying his best to win...and he may succeed because people seem to love strongmen... and if he does win then there is going to be more of that again....

Here, too, we have such troubles, which seem pretty Horrible to me as well. I feel worried that our country and its government is not a place of hope and safety, nor one where the value of the well-being of the entire human community is a priority.

I do not think that the "world" is a place of hope and safety. I do not think that it ever was. Hope and safety seem to be states that arise within us from time to time. Hope rises within me when I see pathways that may lead t credible futures for the human species. Hope rises within me when I am able to generate and hold a vision of the world that makes sense to me. I have no security. I can drop dead at any moment or I could be killed.

Some of us value hope and security and use them as indicators that we claim support the concept of the world as having meaning direction or an objective or plan. We nurture these beliefs because we flee from the fact that we will die and that while we can do something within the period between birth and death we have no idea how to decide what to do in that period.

Even those who decide what to do, often have not mastered the art of deciding what to do before doing it...and so they often end up doing what they never intended to do...and the seconds fly by becoming minutes hours and days as we move towards our graves.

That took 16 minutes of my lifetime to think out and write...

CarolF wrote:Here, too, we have such troubles, which seem pretty Horrible to me as well. I feel worried that our country and its government is not a place of hope and safety, nor one where the value of the well-being of the entire human community is a priority.

Are you referring to the American president’s ways and priorities?
Cultivating fear brings only more fear.
I can rarely look; I do not watch news without sharing your worry.
I choose to focus on what I can do.
Use my small energy as best as I can.
People show subtle mixtures of hope and safety (and all other needs)

Trusting my children seems my best hopeful way.
Writing a little. Connecting a lot.
Whatever I do between my birth and my death matters in its small ways.

I read your message wishing you the best, Mentor SriLanka, happy to see you interested in our Forum. However, I’m sorry I don’t understand where you want to go, what you want to share.
Maybe sometimes my messages have the same effect, I don’t know. I’m sorry when they do.

I wish everyone the best.

Reading different threads again.
Reading your words MentorSriLanka, I wonder : what is it you call « neediness » ?
When I pronounce this word, I sense myself leaning towards contempt.

I don’t enjoy feeling contempt.
I immediately judge myself bad for feeling this feeling
I’ll try a practice to unpack the frightening energy of contempt.
I will not seek a practice to name the need.
(I’m quite sure the need underneath is love. Maybe trust.)
I will not seek a practice to name the need. I will seek a practice towards acceptance.
Writing is one of my practices for acceptance by the way !